Comments on: Gaming is forever doomed: a rebuttal http://www.gameslol.com/2008/02/13/gaming-is-forever-doomed-a-rebuttal/ Marek Bronstring's blog Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:04:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: barry threw » Blog Archive » Interactive Media as Relelvant Cultural Discourse http://www.gameslol.com/2008/02/13/gaming-is-forever-doomed-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-1976 barry threw » Blog Archive » Interactive Media as Relelvant Cultural Discourse Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:19:43 +0000 http://www.gameslol.com/2008/02/13/gaming-is-forever-doomed-a-rebuttal/#comment-1976 [...] very good counter-opinions have been cited, and the bet taken, by people including Borut Pfeifer, Marek Bronstring, Michael Samyn, N’Gai Croal (drawing from a very respectable knowledge base), and John [...] [...] very good counter-opinions have been cited, and the bet taken, by people including Borut Pfeifer, Marek Bronstring, Michael Samyn, N’Gai Croal (drawing from a very respectable knowledge base), and John [...]

]]> By: Roderick http://www.gameslol.com/2008/02/13/gaming-is-forever-doomed-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-1975 Roderick Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:39:33 +0000 http://www.gameslol.com/2008/02/13/gaming-is-forever-doomed-a-rebuttal/#comment-1975 Nice rebuttal, Marek. It's what I've come to expect of you; eloquent and firmly optimistic, without becoming all dooey-eyed and New Age. Also, it's very pleasing to read you responding to this, Steve. I kind of feel the desire to respond to it on my own, but I think Marek can put some more interesting things forward, and this is your 'fight', after all :) Nice rebuttal, Marek. It’s what I’ve come to expect of you; eloquent and firmly optimistic, without becoming all dooey-eyed and New Age.

Also, it’s very pleasing to read you responding to this, Steve. I kind of feel the desire to respond to it on my own, but I think Marek can put some more interesting things forward, and this is your ‘fight’, after all :)

]]> By: Steve http://www.gameslol.com/2008/02/13/gaming-is-forever-doomed-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-1973 Steve Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:00:39 +0000 http://www.gameslol.com/2008/02/13/gaming-is-forever-doomed-a-rebuttal/#comment-1973 Very nice thoughts, Marek. I agree that my initial post was primarily focused on the more 'hardcore' segment of games. But I'd argue that that is also where the majority of both development money and public attention is directed. The Halos and Final Fantasies are the face of gaming as far as most people are concerned. I am glad the smaller, less hardcore games are exploring themes of everything from cooking to deep sea exploration to surgery. These attempts are still much based on their simple verbs (simulating the simple act of cooking, as opposed to being an experience 'about' cooking, like, say, Ratatouille.) I do hope that we begin developing this broad range of interactions with the kind of fidelity now afforded combat. A couple points I'd take with your write-up: - Sports, music, and so forth as pursuits are misaligned with the idea of games being high investment. 90% of people involved with sports or music are spectators, completely passive; I listen to lots of music, but never play an instrument. We could say the same of games on one level-- 90% of the industry just plays games without making them-- but I'd say the second-to-second mental and physical investment in playing a video game is significantly higher than that of watching a baseball game or listening to an MP3. The spectator in the case of music or sports is not activating the experience, simply observing it. Similarly, the internet is on a whole other level from games. Sure, you have to click around, and I'm typing right now. But I clicked into your blog, then spent a good few minutes simply reading what was there, no input required. How often can you fully enjoy a video game without performing any input for 5 minutes at a stretch? Or, in the case of say clicking into a youtube, you invest a fraction of a second to click in, then receive minutes of passive content in return. Okay, maybe that's reminiscent of receiving cutscenes in a game. But if you had to play through 10 minutes of a first-person shooter each time you wanted to watch a youtube video, I doubt many people would be interested. I agree that games imitating movies is just part of the medium's growing pains-- comparisons to early film and television are valid I think. But why are so many comics still just drawings of movies, 60 years on? Will game developers ever "get it?" It won't be for lack of hoping it's so. Very nice thoughts, Marek. I agree that my initial post was primarily focused on the more ‘hardcore’ segment of games. But I’d argue that that is also where the majority of both development money and public attention is directed. The Halos and Final Fantasies are the face of gaming as far as most people are concerned. I am glad the smaller, less hardcore games are exploring themes of everything from cooking to deep sea exploration to surgery. These attempts are still much based on their simple verbs (simulating the simple act of cooking, as opposed to being an experience ‘about’ cooking, like, say, Ratatouille.) I do hope that we begin developing this broad range of interactions with the kind of fidelity now afforded combat.

A couple points I’d take with your write-up:

- Sports, music, and so forth as pursuits are misaligned with the idea of games being high investment. 90% of people involved with sports or music are spectators, completely passive; I listen to lots of music, but never play an instrument. We could say the same of games on one level– 90% of the industry just plays games without making them– but I’d say the second-to-second mental and physical investment in playing a video game is significantly higher than that of watching a baseball game or listening to an MP3. The spectator in the case of music or sports is not activating the experience, simply observing it.

Similarly, the internet is on a whole other level from games. Sure, you have to click around, and I’m typing right now. But I clicked into your blog, then spent a good few minutes simply reading what was there, no input required. How often can you fully enjoy a video game without performing any input for 5 minutes at a stretch? Or, in the case of say clicking into a youtube, you invest a fraction of a second to click in, then receive minutes of passive content in return. Okay, maybe that’s reminiscent of receiving cutscenes in a game. But if you had to play through 10 minutes of a first-person shooter each time you wanted to watch a youtube video, I doubt many people would be interested.

I agree that games imitating movies is just part of the medium’s growing pains– comparisons to early film and television are valid I think. But why are so many comics still just drawings of movies, 60 years on? Will game developers ever “get it?” It won’t be for lack of hoping it’s so.

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